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You can easily renew Indian Passport in USA after 10 years with VFS Global.
Step by step process for re-issue of the passport with the Indian embassy in New York, Houston (Texas), Washington DC, Atlanta (Georgia), Chicago (Illinois), and SFO (San Francisco, California) Indian consulate.
This article will discuss:
- Passport Renewal Process Snapshot
- Processing Time
- Documents Required
- Self Sworn Affidavit
- Registration Steps – Indian Govt Website
- Passport Application Steps – Indian Govt Site
- Print Passport Application
- #1 Adult Passport
- #2 Child Passport
- Notarize these documents
Passport Renewal Process Snapshot
- Create a Passport application on the Indian government Website.
- Create an account on VFS global, pay the shipping fee.
- Collect documents and mail to VFS global.
- VFS verifies documents, sends them to the Indian embassy.
- Indian embassy triggers Police verification in India.
- Indian embassy issues passport.
- VFS sends the new and old passport to you.
Your Indian passport renewal will take 3-6 weeks if the last passport was issued in India.
You can get a new passport in 10 days if your last passport was issued by the Indian Embassy in the USA.
You can apply for renewal 1 year or 365 days before expiry. We recommend applying 6 weeksbefore the final expiry to avoid issues with delays in processing at the Indian embassy.
#1 Expiring Passport
Original and most recent one passport is required to be sent. All other OLD passports, if any, are not required.
Total of 2 photos with size 2×2 Inch are required for passport renewal.
The photo should have white background and not off-white.
You can get passport size photo online or at Sams Club, Costco, CVS, or Walgreens.
#3 NRI Government passport renewal application form
The passport application form will be provided by the Indian government site for printing. Detailed steps are given below.
#4 Highest qualification degree
Indian embassy requires your education details to decide if ECR Stamp is required on your passport or not.
We recommended sending a copy of the Highest Educational Qualification Degree like an MCA or MBA. It is not required but there is no harm in sending.
Check if you need ECNR or ECR?
#5 USA Address proof
You can safely opt to get the USA address printed on an Indian passport. There is no harm.
- Rental Lease Agreement (Month to Month is acceptable) OR Home Mortgage bill – Should not have expired at the time of submission. Rental agreement with future start date?
- Any utility bill (Electricity/ gas/ water/ landline telephone bill) –Must NOT be older than 3 months. Home Internet wifi bill and Mobile bill are NOT accepted.
- Driver’s License OR State ID –Front and back both are required. A Learning / temporary driving license is accepted.
- US bank statement is NOT a valid address proof.
#6 Indian Address Proof
Indian address proof is required if you want to add or change the current Indian Address printed on your current passport.
Does the current passport have an Indian hostel as a permanent address?
- Any Indian utility bill (Electricity/ gas/ water/ landline telephone bill) – Must NOT be older than 3 months
- Aadhar Card
- Indian Drivers license
- Recent Bank Statement from Indian Government bank. The front page is required. Should have an affixed photograph. Check a sample of SBI’s passbook with affixed and stamped photographs here.
#7 Change of Appearance / Signature Form
You should sign and print this change of appearance form if you are applying after 10 years.
Everybody’s presence changes a little as you age.
#8 VFS Document checklist
Download the VFS document checklist here. Print and fill it as you collect documents.
#9 Annexure ‘E’
Specimen Declaration of the applicant on a plain paper.
Create Annexure E Affidavit Online >
#10 Copy of Passport
Photocopy of First 5 pages of YOUR passport + last 2 pages. You can use an app-based scanner.
- First page with Photo, then page numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
- Page number 34, 35, 36, and last page with the address.
- Total of 10 pages.
#11 Marriage Certificate (Optional)
Are you are Married and want to add your Spouse name to the new passport?
- Include Spouse’s Passport’s front (page with picture) and back page (with address) OR
- Spouse Green Card
#12 US Legal Status
- Current Valid US Visa (including dependent Visa) OR
- I-797 OR
- Green card OR
- Employment Authorization Card (EAD) or
- I- 797 approval notice or
- Valid I-20
You can even use the USCIS receipt number copy.
H1B / H4 Extension pending with USCIS? Apply with i797C.
- US Visa – B1/B2 is NOT a valid visa for passport reissue.
- i94 is not a valid Proof either.
#13 Birth Certificate / School Leaving Certificate
#14 Self Sworn Affidavit
#15 Police Report (Only if Passport lost or stolen)
#16 Additional Documents for Child Passport
Create Annexure D with Our App>
- Annexure D signed by both mother and father.
- Mother – Current Valid US Visa OR I-797 OR Green card OR Employment Authorization Card or I- 797 approval notice.
- Mother – Passport first (Photo) page and last page (address page).
- Father – Current Valid US Visa OR I-797 OR Green card OR Employment Authorization Card or I- 797 approval notice.
- Father – Passport first (Photo) page and last page (address) page.
Self Sworn Affidavit
Here is the self sworn affidavit template to be printed on plain A4 size white paper.
Create Self Sworn Affidavit for Indian Address Online >
Indian address is always required as you hold Indian passport.
You can give your parent’s or relatives Indian address by mentioning it on a plain piece of paper and then sign it. It will work as a self-sworn affidavit.
Registration Steps – Indian Govt Website
Start passport application here on Indian government website.
You will need to register for each person separately on this website. We suggest using this website on your laptop or PC as the site is messed up on mobile.
#Step 1 Click the ‘Register’ button and fill in the details.
#Step 2 An email is sent to you for verifying your email. Click the link in the email to activate your online account.
#Step 3 You will be asked to log in again after you have activated your account. Log in again and then this screen will be visible:
Select the option “Apply for Ordinary passport – Application for fresh passport/Re-issue of Passport (Blue cover passport)“
Passport Application Steps – Indian Govt Site
#Step 1 Start Passport application by filling ‘passport type‘ section.
These are the sample values that will apply to most people.
- Choose ‘Re-issue of passport‘.
- Choose ‘Change in personal particular‘ and then select ‘address‘ if you are changing your address from Indian to US or a different address within the USA. You can select more options if you want to change more things on your passport.
- Choose ‘Validity expired within 3 years/Due to expire‘.
- Select Type of application as ‘Normal‘. For tatkal, you should have a pre-authorization from the Indian embassy over email.
- Select ‘Type of Passport Booklet‘ as ’36 pages’. Most people only need 36 pages unless you travel a lot and your passport pages get full within a couple of years.
#Step 2 Click next and fill ‘Applicant details‘. Click next once done.
Once you click ‘Save’, your application is saved and an ‘Application reference number’ (ARN) is generated and shown on top of the current page:
#Step 3 Family Details
Enter family details like Father, mother and spouse name.
Spouse name is mandatory if you have select the marital status as ‘married’.
#Step 4: Applicant Address Details
Your presence at an Indian address is not mandatory. Indian embassy understands that you are physically present outside India.
It is mandatory to provide at least one Indian address in the form. It will be used for police verification. You can give your parent or relative’s Indian address.
You can choose these combinations:
|Passport Print Address||Other Address|
In this example image, we are opting to print US address on the passport and then providing an Indian address as ‘other address’:
- Indian mobile number should be valid as someone will call on it for police verification.
- Choose the correct Indian police station as per your Indian address to avoid delays in your application.
- Your relative should be able to vouch for you when they call.
- As it is expected in most places, they may have to give a nominal amount as ‘chai paani‘ to the police officer. The normal amount that most people have reported to have paid is about INR 1000 to 2000. They expect it as you are earning in Dollars 🙂
#Step 5 Enter emergency contact details
We suggest providing details of the person who you know in the USA. You can provide anyone from India too. It’s your choice.
#Step 6 Previous Passport Details
Enter details and click next.
#Step 7: Other Details
Enter details and click next.
#Step 8 Passport Review
Enter details and click next.
#Step 9 Passport preview
Step 9 shows a nice preview of the new passport’s biometric page. Verify your information and click next.
#Step 10 Verify and Submit
The last step is to verify all the details and then submit your application. You can make changes before clicking ‘Submit‘ button.
Your application is locked once you click ‘Submit‘ and changes cannot be made.
Print Passport Application
Once you have submitted, you can print the application from the Applicant Home page.
You should print the passport application on one side of the white paper only. Leave the back side blank. Do not double print.
You should sign the printed application with black or blue pen only.
VFS Global Website – Fee Payment & Shipping
VFS’s website and the instructions are half baked and it seems they have been given the contract at the last moment.
The link given on the VFS website will waste your time filling the form even before registration.
But, the problem is that there is no other way to register either (at least we could not find any).
VFS services are used for postal Envelope, Payment & shipping your documents.
#Step 1 Visit the VFS global website and create an application there.
This is also not a mobile friendly website. So, we suggest to use a desktop.
Select ‘Passport‘ box (Blue color) and then you will see a new form open up:
Click the button ‘Proceed‘.
#Step 2 Fee Details
The total fee for Indian passport renewal is $92.90 including the VFS service fee of $15.90.
Now, once you click the ‘proceed‘ button, you will be asked to register and activate the registration by email. Once you are done, you will have to REDO the whole VFS application. Amazing!
#Step 3 Click ‘Create new application’.
Enter the details again on this page after logging in to VFS portal system.
#Step 4 Click ‘proceed’ button and you will be asked to add a customer.
#Step 5 Click ‘Add customer‘ and you will see this screen where you will be asked to once again enter all your information.
Make sure you enter the Indian government website’s ARN number in the ‘Govt reference number’ field:
Click ‘Submit‘ button.
#Step 5a Many people have complained that they are not able to see the ‘select courier service’ after adding a customer.
Try this as it worked for us:
- Log out and Log in again to VFS Global portal.
- Click the ‘retrieve incomplete application‘ button (blue color) given on the left-hand side menu.
- Use your registered email (used to register on the VFS site) and click search.
- You should now be able to see the ‘Select courier‘ option on the customer list screen as shown in our next step below.
- If you are still not able to see the ‘select courier service‘ option, then click the ‘Edit‘ link given in the ‘Actions‘ column next to your name list. This should show the courier service option.
#Step 6 Select Courier Service
You reach the customer list screen.
Note down the VFS reference number. This will be required to search your application if you are automatically logged out.
We recommend VFS’s shipping option. They use FedEx and the cost is $30 for two way shipping.
If you decide to use your own courier service, do not forget to send a pre-paid envelope for return shipping.
- USPS prepaid labels have an expiry date and hence are not accepted by VFS.
- You can use UPS but the prepaid label with UPS Store address is not acceptable.
The total cost would be $127.20 including the Fedex shipping both ways.
#Step 7 Courier Service Address
Enter your own mailing address here and not the VFS global’s address.
The USA address on your prepaid shipping label should match the proof of address document submitted.
#Step 8 Confirm Application
Click the ‘confirm application’ button and then you will be automatically taken to a payment site named ‘Adyen.com’.
#Step 9 Download Courier Labels
Once the online payment is completed, you can download the shipping labels and send your application package.
Self Attest & Notary
#1 Adult Passport
Self attest means that you should sign yourself on the photocopy. No notary is required.
Self Attest these documents:
- Your passport copy of the First Five and the Last two pages.
- Indian Address proof (If Applicable for your case).
- Copy of Marriage Certificate (ONLY If you are married).
- Spouse Passport copy (ONLY If you are married).
- Birth Certificate / School Leaving Certificate.
- Police Report (Only if Passport lost or stolen).
#2 Child Passport
A parent need to sign along with your child.
- If Child age is greater than 5 years, he should write his/her name them-self.
- If your child is less than 5 years, he/she should use his/her thumb print.
Both parent and child need to self-attest. Each parent should self-attest their own document. Get your child to sign all documents too.
The mother should sign her own and Father his own documents. Mother cannot sign the father’s document and vice versa.
For general document (like forms), any one parent can sign.
- CHILD’s – Passport copies of the first five and last two pages
- CHILD’s – Birth Certificate
- US Address proof – Utility bill or driving license or rental lease agreement on any one of parent’s name.
- Indian Address proof – Utility bill or driving license or rental lease agreement on any one of the parent’s names.
- Mother’s – Color copy of passport pages that you have photocopied.
- Father’s – Color copy of passport pages that you have photocopied.
- Mother’s – Color copy of Visa or Green Card or I797 approval notice.
- Father’s – Color copy of Visa or Green Card or I797 approval notice.
- ANNEXURE ‘D’ – Affidavit for Applying for Minor passport by parents
- Annexure ‘E’ – Specimen Declaration of the applicant on a plain paper
- CHILD’s – Color copy of Visa or Green Card or I797 approval notice.
Notarize these documents
- USA Address proof – color copy
- Self Sworn Affidavit (Optional notary but we strongly recommend)
- Change of Appearance Form.Is AFFIDAVIT FOR CHANGE IN APPEARANCE mandatory if mine has not changed?
- Annexure E
- Annexure D (for Child Passport)
- Copy of Visa or Green Card or I797 approval/pending notice.
Package, Mailing & Tracking
- Arrange documents in the order of the VFS document checklist with a checklist on top.
- Paste photo
- Stick one photo on the Indian government passport application form.
- Stick the second photo on ‘Change of appearance form’.
- (Optional) Use a small letter-style envelope to keep the passport just to have an extra layer of protection.
- Original Expiring Passport.
- Use a paper clip, paper pins, or a binder paper clip instead to tie all the documents together. Do NOT use a stapler.
Visit the FedEx office, pick up the FREE envelope (included in the shipping fees you paid to VFS), and send it with VFS’s FedEx shipping label within 15 days of generating the label.
NOTE: No need to send a return envelope. It will be taken care of by VFS if you opted for VFS shipping.
You can track your application status on the Indian government website or at the VFS site using your VFS reference number.
We have documented the process and VFS application refund policy separately here.
Is ECR or ECNR Proof Required for Indian Passport Renewal in the USA?
The ECR, ECNR proof is not required for Indian passport renewal in the USA.
The ECR/ECNR status is available on page 2 of the Indian passport.
If it is not there or nothing is mentioned in your passport, you can select option ECNR (Emigration check not required) on point 13.
Can I send ECR, ECNR Proof even if it is not required?
You can send a photocopy of your highest educational qualification degree like MCA (Masters in Computer Applications) for ECNR proof.
If you do not attach any proof and your old passport did not have the ECR stamp, you will automatically be considered eligible for ECNR.
No notarization needed. Just Self-attest with your signature and clearly mark the photocopy with “For ECNR – Documentary proof”.
Where to Get Indian Passport Photo in the USA?
You can get Indian Passport photos at Walmart, Costco, Sams Club, CVS, or Walgreens. ePassportPhoto offers free delivery and just $1.5 per picture.
Costco or Sam’s club charge approximately $4.96 for 2 passport photo.
Where Can I get Free Notary for Indian Passport Renewal?
Your local city library, Bank (like Bank of America, Chase), your own office are the FREE notary options for Indian passport renewal.
USPS, FedEx, and other local mail shops would charge around $5+ per page of the notary.
Is Aadhar number mandatory for Indian passport renewal in the USA?
Aadhar number is not mandatory for Indian passport renewal in the USA.
Is Spouse’s name mandatory for married people?
The Indian passport application website does make it mandatory to provide a spouse’s name if you select your marital status as ‘Married’.
i485 Medical Interfile/RFE Letteri485 Birth Affidavitsi140 EB2 to EB3 Downgrade Cover Letter
What are the documents required for renewal of Indian passport in USA? ›
- Copy of the VFS Order Form.
- A Filled and Signed Checklist. ...
- Online Application Form filled and signed by the applicant.
- 3 Copies of the filled Nationality Verification Form/ Personal Particulars form and 3 photographs for personal particular form.
Aadhaar letter/card or the e-Aadhaar (an electronically generated letter from the website of UIDAI), as the case may be, will be accepted as Proof of Address (POA) and Proof of Photo-Identity (POI) for availing passport related services.Does VFS return original documents? ›
Original documents such as marriage/birth certificates will be returned to you. However, bank statements, letters of invitation etc. will not be returned.What are the documents required for VFS? ›
Valid passport or travel documents
Current original passport with an expiry date of at least three months after expiry date of the visa and must have at least two (2) blank pages. I If you renewed the passport less than a year, submit your previous passport as well (copy of every page with a visa or a stamp on it).
Documents Required for Indian Passport
- Passport application form.
- Proof of address.
- Proof of date of birth.
- Documentary proof for any one of the Non-ECR categories.
You won't need any documents to renew your passport digitally, but you will need a current photograph of yourself, a credit or debit card, and your current passport. You can renew your passport here on the official government website.Is there police verification for Indian passport renewal in USA? ›
A:Fresh police verification would take place if you apply for re-issue of passport after expiry of old passport more than three years ago. Processing time depend on availability of clear Police Verification report from Concerned Authority in India.Is birth certificate required for passport renewal in USA? ›
NOTE: All applicants MUST submit a Long Form Birth Certificate. Short Form or abstract Birth Certificates are NOT ACCEPTABLE.How much time does it take for Indian passport renewal in USA? ›
The normal processing time of passport is 3 weeks.Does VFS verify your documents? ›
Professionally trained VFS Global staff will perform a series of pre-checks and initial validation on certain key supporting documents, which will result in faster processing times by the Irish Visa Office in New Delhi on your application. You can pay for this service online or pay in cash at VFS Global visa centre .
How do I know if my VFS received my passport? ›
You can track your passport/documents via online/web chat/helpline number/email provided below. To track your passport/documents online, you'll have to enter the Tracking ID number mentioned on the receipt received from the Visa Application Centre, and your Date of Birth.What happens after submitting documents at VFS? ›
VFS officers will verify the information submitted online and compare it to the original documents. If needed, they will edit the information submitted by the applicant, before permanently storing the application. The officers will then check if the photograph meets the specifications.Can I submit passport to VFS in person? ›
Effective Monday, 01st August 2022 applicants can submit their passports (with prior appointment) and collect their decision envelopes (walk-in) from Monday-Friday between 9:00 to 17:00 Hrs at all Visa Application centres in India.Can someone else submit my passport to VFS? ›
Can someone else submit the application on my behalf? You may appoint a representative to submit your application on your behalf.How long does VFS take to process? ›
Processing usually takes 15 business days from receipt by the Embassy of a complete application and may take longer during peak times and in exceptional circumstances.How many address proof documents required for passport? ›
Acceptable Address Proof For Passport Application
From the list below, any one out of 13 address proof documents can be used. Applicant's current and valid ration card (If any applicant submits only ration card as proof of address, it should be accompanied by one more proof of address out of the given categories).
Applicants are required to furnish original documents along with one set of self-attested photocopies of the same at the Passport Seva Kendra (PSK) for processing.How long does it take to get a new passport 2022? ›
|Routine||6 to 9 weeks|
|Expedited||3 to 5 weeks|
|Expedited at Agency||Must have international travel within 14 calendar days|
Applicants are required to furnish original documents along with one set of self-attested photocopies of the same at the Passport Seva Kendra (PSK) for processing.Do I need to upload documents for passport renewal? ›
It is necessary to carry all original documents at the PSK. However, original documents are returned to the applicant. According to the list of documents required for a passport, soft copies are necessary to upload with the application. It is necessary to carry all original documents at the PSK.
Should police be present for passport verification? ›
Do I have to present in-person for the police verification process? Yes, it is advisable that you are present for your police verification process.How many days does it take to complete police verification of an Indian passport? ›
The police verification usually takes somewhere between 2 to 3 weeks.How can I get police verification certificate from USA? ›
Go to your local police department where you reside or last resided in the United States, request that the police conduct a local or state criminal records search and provide you with a document reflecting that there is no history of a criminal record.Is birth certificate enough for passport? ›
Anyone applying for a passport who was born on or after January 26, 1989 must show their birth certificate as identification in accordance with the Passport Rules of 1980. A new law now allows other sorts of documents to be used in place of birth certificates.What documents show proof of citizenship? ›
Proof of U.S. citizenship: You must either provide your most recently issued passport, an original U.S. birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240), a naturalization certificate, or a certificate of citizenship.Do you need to send full birth certificate for passport? ›
You'll need all of the following: your full birth certificate showing your parents' details. the passport you used to come into the UK or any foreign passport that you're included on. evidence of one parent's British nationality, for example their UK birth or adoption, naturalisation or registration certificate.How many days does VFS take to return passport? ›
If you were advised on the day of your interview that your application is successful, you should allow approximately 7 to 10 working days for your application to be processed. If additional information or documentation was required in your case, you must allow additional time.How can I renew my Indian passport quickly? ›
Login to the Passport Seva Online Portal with the registered Login Id. Click "Apply for Fresh Passport/Re-issue of Passport" link. Fill in the required details in the form and submit. Click the "Pay and Schedule Appointment" link on the "View Saved/Submitted Applications" screen to schedule an appointment.What is the best time to renew Indian passport? ›
You can apply for a re-issue of passport up to 1 year before the expiry and not earlier. However, in case of any change of personal particulars, lost/damaged, Exhaustion of pages you may apply for re-issue of passport.What happens in VFS check and verify? ›
As part of this service, they make reasonable checks, including but not limited to; Bank statements; Income Tax Returns, Credit history, Employment, Court record checks to confirm the accuracy and authenticity of information submitted by you in connection with this application.
Do US Embassy verify documents? ›
No. United States Embassies and/or Consulates do not provide remote notarial nor authentication services. Some U.S. states do permit remote notarization but as a general matter limit the practice to notarials executed within their physical jurisdiction.How many days does it take for verify of documents? ›
Karnataka Police will verify all documents within 21 days, promises DGP.How do I know if my passport application was accepted? ›
Go to the Online Passport Status System to check your application status if you applied by mail or in person. Check your MyTravelGov account if you renewed online. You may not be able to get a status update for 2 weeks after you apply or renew.
- Website: Click here for applications lodged on or after 02 November 2019.
- Web chat: Chat Now
- Email: Send an email to email@example.com.
- Helpline Number: Call Centre: +27 (0) 800 101 007.
- Visit the Visa Application Centre to track your application.
It may take 8 weeks after you receive your new passport for your supporting documents (e.g. birth certificate or previous passport) to arrive. If you have been waiting more than 8 weeks, contact the National Passport Information Center at 1-877-487-2778 to report that you have not received your documents.Is passport submission means visa approved? ›
k.h.p. said: As many, many, many people have asked and answered - passport request means they have approved your application. There is no other reason, at all, to request a passport. However - if you submit your passport and they find it is fake, or that you have lied about travel details, you can still be rejected.What happens after passport application is submitted? ›
The Passport Office will dispatch the passport to you within 3 days after receiving your passport application with all the required additional documents and Annexures. The Police Verification will take place after passport dispatch, and there is no need for a PVR before the passport is issued.Does VFS make visa decisions? ›
VFS Global and its staff do not play any part in or influence the outcome of your visa application. VFS Global can only provide services to ensure that your visa application is correctly filled in and submitted.CAN expired Indian passport be renewed in USA? ›
Yes, you can renew your expired Indian passport in the U.S. via VFS Global.How many photographs are required for Indian passport renewal in USA? ›
Total of 2 photos with size 2×2 Inch are required for passport renewal. The photo should have white background and not off-white.
Is Aadhaar mandatory for passport renewal in USA? ›
Is an Aadhaar mandatory for applying for a passport? No, Aadhar is not mandatory. You should have other valid documents to prove your identity, address and date of birth.How long does it take for VFS to return passport? ›
If you were advised on the day of your interview that your application is successful, you should allow approximately 7 to 10 working days for your application to be processed. If additional information or documentation was required in your case, you must allow additional time.Can an Indian citizen return to India with expired passport? ›
No, you need to renew it at Indian Embassy or consulate. Travelling with expired passport is unlawful, you can end up imprisoned or fined.What happens if Indian passport expires while abroad? ›
In all cases you would have to apply to the Indian Embassy or Consulate in that particular country for renewal of your passport.Is police verification required for passport renewal in USA? ›
A:You can apply for a re-issue of passport up to 1 year before the expiry OR within three years after the expiry of the existing passport without fresh police verification, provided there is no change in personal particulars and there is clear police report with respect to your previous passport and there is no adverse ...Is marriage certificate required for Indian passport renewal in USA? ›
In case the current passport does not include spouse's name a notarized photocopy of the marriage certificate is required. A copy of the spouse's passport or United States ID is also required in the application.Is bank statement required for passport renewal? ›
No. Not at all. Bank passbook or any other such document isn't required for the issuance of passport. Proof of identity, Proof of age and Proof of Address (Aadhar card will work in this case).Is PAN card required for passport renewal? ›
Is it important to submit PAN Card as well as Aadhar Card or will only one of the documents suffice? Both documents have to be submitted as the authorities will require them both to check your eligibility for a passport.What if VFS lost my passport? ›
Without prejudice to the aforesaid, VFS Global's and/or its representatives sole and exclusive liability in case a passport is lost or damaged in transit, is limited/restricted to the reimbursement of the amount of fees charged by the Embassy, for the replacement of a lost / damaged passport through normal application ...